Carbon Monoxide, and Naps

It may not be the Turkey that makes you sleepy.

Carbon monoxide from an electric oven

Cooking the turkey for hours can introduce considerable amounts of carbon monoxide to the home during the cooking process.  Turkey has a component that has been attributed to that nap after dinner.  Others hypothesize it is just eating too much that leads to sleepiness.  It is also possible that exposure to Carbon Monoxide is a contributor.

If carbon monoxide is a culprit, it is not only related to gas ovens. 

I am not sure how much CO is given off in an electric oven during the cooking of a turkey, but certainly some amount is likely. I will have to wait until Thanksgiving to get more information on that.

Considerable is created when using the self-clean function of the oven. 

My own oven gives off between 28 and 3 PPM for the first 1-1/2 hours of the 3 hour cycle.  After that time, whatever was creating the CO was successfully incinerated and CO levels dropped to normal. 

These amounts are perhaps not enough to kill you, but certainly enough to affect a person–especially infants that might be around.

In the first 15 minutes of operation, my own oven gave off about 28 PPM, after about half an hour it settled down to 12 PPM and after about an hour it was down to 5 PPM.  At the one-hour mark, ambient CO levels in the kitchen 10 feet away from the oven hovered around 3 PPM—with the exhaust fan on and a window open.

I suspect the amount of CO will depend on what the oven is burning off in the cleaning mode, and levels likely could be considerably higher, and for longer periods of time, if the oven is not cleaned very often.  I clean min probably twice a year.  I may start doing it more often now.

Of course your ordinary CO alarm is “not allowed” to alarm, per its listing, at these low levels, so most of the time you will have no idea why you need a nap.

I think the lesson here is to clean your ovens regularly–don’t wait until you can see the bottom of the oven.  You should also run the kitchen exhaust hood the whole cleaning cycle and keep a window open.

Perhaps I will go take a nap, while I wait for the oven to finish.

Charles Buell, real estate inspections in Seattle

Stack Effect does not need help!

Stack effect does its best to create a river of air through your house–it wants to flow in at the bottom and out the top.

Stack effect is the movement of air into and out of buildings, chimneys, flue-gas stacks, or other containers, resulting from air buoyancy. Buoyancy occurs due to a difference in indoor-to-outdoor air density resulting from temperature and moisture differences. The result is either a positive or negative buoyancy force. The greater the thermal difference and the height of the structure, the greater the buoyancy force, and thus the stack effect. The stack effect helps drive natural ventilation, air infiltration, and fires. 

Our air sealing efforts can mitigate stack effect but it is always ready flow as soon as there is an opening.

While houses that have less than 1ACH-50 (air changes per hour) come close to combating stack effect, current energy code requirements of 3ACH-50, does not. (Washington State Energy Code is still stuck on 5ACH-50–likely until the 2021 Code Cycle.) 

For this post we will be talking about homes that meet current energy code requirements—or are worse than current code requirements.

In modern tight construction, for exhaust fans to function and to change air in the home, we must also provide a path for fresh air to enter the home when the fans are running.  Sometimes the air intake locations are with vents built into the vinyl windows themselves.  I do not want to discuss all the other means of providing fresh air to the home.  This post will only focus on the window air intake type vents.

There are problems with these air intakes in multi-story homes.  When the vents are open, they allow that river of air to flow 24/7.  In my experience, these vents are either always open or always closed because the homeowner does not know what to do with them.  Just as often they do not even know they are there.  The result is WAY more air changes per hour than the house was constructed to meet.

In the following pictures we can see the result of stack effect on vinyl windows with the window vents open. 

Air Intake

The windows are covered with plastic related to painting the building.  Notice how the plastic puffs out at the top and sucks in at the bottom–clearly demonstrating the power of stack effect.

Stack Effect

Stack Effect

Solutions to this issue are illusive, but there certainly should not be any vents up high. If there are, they should be kept closed.  At 3ACH-50 there will always be enough air leakage to change the air more-or-less continually at the upper level–but obviously this is not the desired way to do it.  Leaving the vents open at the bottom level to allow for fresh air intake when exhaust fans or the whole house air exchange fans are running should be sufficient.

Abandonment of window intake type vents in favor of barometric type intakes would be a far better option.

We certainly cannot allow the river of air to flow wild.

A while back I did another post  about how when these vents are left open at both levels it can result in too low of an indoor humidity.  The window intakes can allow us to lose control of the indoor environment when some become outlets.

Charles Buell,

Real Estate Inspections in Seattle

Confused About Attic Ventilation?

Builders, roofers, insulation contractors, homeowners and home inspectors are seemingly dazed-n-confused about attic ventilation.

Lets first discuss what the purpose of ventilating the roof is.  The primary purpose is heat reduction.  With the ventilation necessary to accomplish this it will also remove very minor amounts of moisture that may find its way into the space as well.  Its overall purpose is NOT TO REMOVE MOISTURE.  We want to reduce heat to reduce cooling loads and improve indoor comfort.

One can find an endless number of articles on the web about the solution to moisture issues in attics being to add more ventilation.

While I think a lot of these answers are only accidentally correct, when someone says moisture issues in the attic are a “ventilation issue,” I think they are missing the big picture and may result in the wrong solution to the problem.  These solutions too often make things worse.

Sure the ventilation can be wrong in terms of “amounts,” or it can even be completely missing.  It is interesting, because attic ventilation can actually be completely missing and the issue might still not happen at all.

I think it is safe to say, having too much upper ventilation would be worse than none at all, because it will increase depressurization of the lid.  This will lead to even more house air (which is at higher pressure) pushing its way into the attic.

So ventilation may need more balancing of intake and exhaust, but that alone will not correct the issue.

What the house needs is proper air sealing more than ventilation correction. 

Of course in the context of any air sealing the attic, it would be a good idea to adjust the ventilation to industry standards.  This is typically 50% upper  and 50% lower spread around the sides.  As long as that upper level does not go above 50% it is fine.  40% upper and 60% lower is fine as well.

You can get ventilation horribly wrong per code recommendations, and if you get air sealing correct, the attic will behave itself.

This attic had 15% upper ventilation and 85% at the eaves and this is what it looked like 33 years later.  (R-60 cellulose, raised heel trusses, and who even knew about spray foam in a can back then?) (As a side note:  the shingles on this roof were white 3-tab, over no underlayment and lasted 30 years with no sheathing damage—even at the eaves.) 

You can get ventilation perfect per code recommendations, and if you get air sealing wrong, the attic can go horribly wrong.

This is a 15 year old attic with perfect 50/50 ventilation.  (R-38 white fluffy, conventional framing)

It is more accurate to say this is an air bypass issue than a ventilation issue because the issue cannot be corrected by just focusing on ventilation.

This is where power vents become “snake oil” and can make the condition radically worse.

To illustrate the problem, I pose a question?  How much do I need to increase attic ventilation to fix a roof leak?

I think most would agree you fix a roof leak by fixing the roof.

The same is true for too much moisture in the attic from indoor sources–you exclude the moisture as necessary–you fix the moisture bypasses.  This is accomplished with proper, adequate air sealing and in some areas this will include vapor barriers.  The vast majority of moisture finding its way into attics is from air bypasses—not vapor diffusion.

This air sealing can be difficult in older homes and should be automatic in newer homes.

One of the biggest hurdles to overcome is that roofers are not air sealing experts and many insulation contractors are also not on board with the science of it all.  As a homeowner, you need to make sure the roofer and builder and insulator you hire knows how these systems play together.  You will also need to find a home inspector or building performance professional to help you sort it all out.

Charles Buell

Real Estate Inspections in Seattle